And Still We Rise
The "And Still We Rise" Podcast (formally known as The Ego Project), is hosted by mental health therapist and group practice owner, Cristine Seidell. It is a space where look deeper into our limiting beliefs or behavioral patterns, seek to understand our authentic self and find new and exciting ways to celebrate the radiance we are meant to bring into the word. Through unscripted and unedited conversations with thought-leaders, therapists, spiritualists, and creatives, And Still We Rise explores how childhood wounding and intentional healing impacts our lives.
And Still We Rise
The Art of Validation: Building Stronger Relationships
Validation might be the missing piece in your most challenging relationships. In this illuminating conversation with therapist Sara Kassam, we dive deep into why so many of our interactions break down and how one powerful communication skill can transform them.
The revelation at the heart of our discussion? Validation doesn't require agreement. This distinction liberates us to acknowledge others' emotional experiences without endorsing perspectives we don't share. "You can validate that someone is feeling upset or hurt," Sara explains, "without validating the action of them yelling at you or insulting you."
We examine the subtle ways invalidation creeps into our everyday language through phrases like "you shouldn't feel that way" or the particularly problematic "I'm sorry you feel that way"—words that appear empathetic but actually distance us from accountability and connection. Through practical examples, we demonstrate how replacing "but" with "and" in our responses creates space for multiple truths to exist simultaneously.
The conversation takes an honest turn when we address the discomfort that drives our invalidating behaviors. Often, we jump to problem-solving or dismissing emotions because sitting with someone else's feelings triggers our own insecurities. This awareness allows us to approach communication differently—from conscious self-reflection rather than defensive reactivity.
Whether you're struggling with a romantic partner, family member, coworker, or even your relationship with yourself, this episode offers tangible strategies to break free from destructive communication cycles. As Sara reminds us, "Communication is just a form of connection seeking"—and validation might be the key to the connection you've been missing.
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
Hello and welcome to In Still we Rise. I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have a therapist with us, sara Kassam. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing well? Thank you so much for joining us. I am just going to read a little bit about the work that Sara does and then we're going to start our topic for today. So let's talk about Sarah. Sarah is a therapist at Rise Therapy Center. She enjoys using an empathic and tailored therapeutic approach when working with clients, as she believes there is no one-size-fits-all solution to care. Sara often uses cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy and operates from a family systems theory and person-centered approach when providing services. When working alongside children, sara aims to use creative and playful approaches. Sara strives to meet you where you are in your healing journey. Welcome Sarah.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and fun little side note your last name is about to change, so congratulations.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's going to be a big process trying to get the name change thing started. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And probably odd to like start hearing it on a regular basis. You know, as a woman, it's kind of like oh wait, my name is different, so congratulations, and we can't wait to celebrate that new journey for you. So well, today, talking about relationships, talking about therapeutic work, we're going to talk about healthy communication, which sounds kind of like just a you know everyday type of thing, but as therapists, we really realize how very little healthy communication actually goes on in relationships. So tell us a little bit of how would you define healthy communication and why is it a part of, like any foundational relationship, whether it's family, romantic, friendship, work, whatever. What is healthy communication and why is it so important?
Speaker 2:It's so hard to define, I feel like, but I think the main thing that I look for in communication, in any of my relationships and also as a therapist, is like are you able to be open and are you able to be honest and also being comfortable enough to be vulnerable too? So I think with communication sometimes things can get misinterpreted if we don't have the part of us being open, us being willing to be vulnerable with someone else and, of course, that vulnerability and openness doesn't come if there's no underlying trust. But that's like the foundational portion of communication. There's got to be some level of trust so that you can build up the openness, vulnerability and honesty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that you can build up the openness, vulnerability and honesty. Yeah, and I think, ultimately, I mean communication is our means to some external end. Right, like communication starts if it's like we need to inform or we need to solve or we need to declare something, yeah, right, so communication, if we didn't need communication, we would just be, you know, kind of, even even if it's nonverbal, we still be doing the same thing, right, and a lot of unhealthy nonverbal communication that goes on in our body language too. So, you know, community healthy communication is really needed because we, ultimately, we have some end goal with it, which would be why unhealthy communication is so disruptive to our process, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I think it's difficult sometimes because it's not like we're in sometimes we're not intentionally trying to communicate in a way that's unhealthy, it's just the way that we've learned, you know, learned behavior. And then it also is important for us to take that signs of our social signaling, like what are we portraying, what are our nonverbal cues, what are our verbal cues? I think it's really difficult to tell. Sometimes too, with different relationships, like in romantic relationships. I'm more likely to speak in a different way with my fiance than I do with like my client, as opposed to like my parents. So it's very nuanced too in that sense.
Speaker 1:It really is and I think that you know, within all of those different relationships, they're really trying to seek, you know, like I said earlier, some end goal. So when that's not happening, that's typically when people are like, huh, something might be off. And I, you know, we, we work with people every day and so many people come in and they're like I'm literally the best communicator, like when I do couples work, they'll be like I am. One of them will be like I'm such a great communicator, I constantly talk about my feelings, and there are other partners like absolutely not. What are some common sides? That communication in a relationship has become unhealthy or they're in a pattern of unhealthy communication?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the main thing that I look out for is, like are you able to validate and is the person feeling validated after your conversation? And I think that's where things get a little bit tricky too, because we oftentimes, when we hear the word validation, we automatically tie that in with agreement and approval, and that's the part where I the one thing that I want people to take away is that validation does not mean agreement. It just means that you're hearing the other person and being willing to validate the emotion that they're feeling. It's possible to validate that they're feeling upset, angry, hurt, but you don't have to validate the action of them yelling at you or screaming at you or insulting you. I think that's the main thing that I look out for Like how do I feel after this conversation with this person? Do I feel validated and what can I do differently?
Speaker 1:in my conversations, yeah, and I oftentimes like, I think what we end up seeing is like that end result, right, like the end result of their pattern, you know. So they're coming in because they actually are staying in the same conversation over and over and over. It's a pattern of that's a pattern of unhealthy communication where you actually can't get to any resolution, whether the person feels seen and heard, or whether there's an agreement that has been able to take place, or whether repair has has, you know, been been done. You know, that's where we really see these patterns of unhealthy communications, when they're literally having the same conversation over and over again, and that's typically because validation hasn't occurred at any level. So tell us more about what does validation mean in the context of healthy communication? We know it's needed, but what does validation really mean in a healthy communication, healthy relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the first part of validation is just the basics, like making eye contact with the person while they're talking to you. I'm actively listening to them nodding along while they're talking, and it doesn't have to be like a dramatic, like oh yeah, you know, it's just subtle, like body language, like eye contact, making sure we're listening to them, showing them that we're interested in what they're saying and then empathizing. I think listening to them, showing them that we're interested in what they're saying and then empathizing, I think so, like we've heard what they said, and then we repeat it back to them like hey, that makes sense to me as to why you would feel that way. I would also feel that way if I was in this situation and then giving feedback like you must be feeling hurt, you must be feeling whatever, and then ask them is that correct? Did I interpret that correctly?
Speaker 2:I think that's the way that I like to you know, bundle up my validation like start with understanding where you're coming from, listening to what they're having to say and then seeing, like my understanding you correctly, like it's okay to ask, like, is this correct? Because, again, we're not trying to guess how they're feeling or also not wanting to put words in their mouth either. So it's kind of having to navigate that little balance there. And I think one thing that I've seen a lot also is whenever we have couples and they're disagreeing, they always, you know, they want to portray their perspective by saying no, I'm sorry, but actually I see it this way. Now see, that's not necessarily validation. Instead, I would say something like I hear you and I see it this way, as opposed to saying I'm sorry, but because then the but just negates everything you just said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting in like communication how, when somebody that we're in a relationship with, regardless of what the relationship type is, when they come to communicate us, it's like we're already from, you know, for an unhealthy pattern of communication.
Speaker 1:We're already trying to figure out how to fix or confront whatever information they're coming at us with. So let's say, a wife comes home and she's, you know, just totally flustered because of traffic, and this person, like, cut her off and gave her the middle finger, and you know she's all flustered. And she comes home and the husband's like, well, you know, maybe next time, you know, don't do this. And already the communication has been cut off because ultimately, that's not a situation that needs anything to be fixed, it doesn't need anything to be overcome, it just needs to be expressed Right. And we don't realize in so many ways how unavailable we become in communication when we've been in unhealthy patterns that we're not even really hearing what it is that the person is is actually expressing, you know. And so I think it's so important when we notice these patterns of, of, of, and it's almost like a visceral feeling within the body. It's like we almost contract a little bit when we, yeah, like you get defensive like.
Speaker 1:And then, all of a sudden, you know something that just needed to be validated in terms of like oh my gosh, I can't believe somebody cut you off and the middle finger, what is wrong with you, you know? And then we're like, yeah, that's right. And then our, if our partner continues, then we're like, yeah, that's right. And then, if our partner continues, then we're kind of like, yeah, I mean, actually it wasn't that bad and we can move through it so much more because we actually no longer have to hold on to that feeling of the injustice of being cut off in traffic. Right? So with validation, how do we actually really support ourselves in validation? Because I love that. You said validation is not about agreeing with somebody, it's about being present with somebody. So how does that actually support us too?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a way, like by validating others, we're also making sure we're, you know, looking inwards, validating ourselves. So I think something that I see a lot with some of my high performing clients is like they feel like, you know, they should already know how to do this, they should already be doing this, and then they are not able to have empathy for themselves because they're like, well, this is something that I should already have known myself. They're not able to validate the emotion that they're having, the feeling that, oh, like, maybe, like I'm feeling a little scared, I'm feeling a little nervous. I think validation can apply inwards, too.
Speaker 2:You can work on validating the emotions you have. You don't have to validate the fact that you, you know, did something that was hurtful to someone. You can validate that you were hurt, so maybe that's why you hurt them. I think that's a stuck point that I see a lot too like about the action. Like sometimes, if someone makes a, they really get hard on themselves or they want to like rectify that. And again, we don't have to validate the fact that you made the mistake, just validate the fact that you know, you feel a certain way about it and it happened.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that you know what you're kind of speaking to is that you know, when we practice validation, we're actually coming to a place of acceptance too, right? So two things can coexist you can have that experience and I cannot agree with it, right, but that doesn't mean that conflict has to occur. It means you can have that experience and I can attend to it, and I can still hold my perspective and move through it. And it's almost like you're coming to a point of acceptance of, like I choose the relationship over choosing the need to be right or the need to fix, Like I'm choosing the relationship over my sense of of rightness, I guess, in whatever way, that, yeah, and that's so difficult to do because, you know, in that heat of the moment, you're like I just want you know, I just want to convey my point.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter how I convey it, it's like I just want to convey it and that's something that I always see like with. Well, I often see not always I often see Pretty regularly though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I often see with couples too, like but the example you gave about the wife coming home all she wanted was someone to validate that she was feeling that certain way and not jump into problem solving. And I think that's a great way for us to even build communication, like when the wife shares says hey, what do you need from me right now? Do you want to just vent? Do you want me to give you feedback? Do you want me to help you problem solve? Like, tell me how I can support you. And I think that's a good conversation starter too, to help get the communication flowing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that like that validation can can even be from a playful state right, like that example of the wife, you know coming home and and the injustice of somebody flipping her off and you know getting, you know getting stuck in traffic and your partner being kind of your cheerleader. You know that's a form of validating. It was like how dare somebody cut off my sweet baby? You know she's got to get home and like we have like wine ready and you know like there's a playful state in that too, of being like ah, I don't, I hate that for you too, you know, and it helps us move through things where we're able to, even as a person that's venting, is able to come back to presence and be like oh my gosh, you're right, it actually it was a middle finger and that's about somebody being completely unhinged right now and I don't need to carry that with me.
Speaker 1:So also, you know, when we feel validation in a conversation, it's not only that we come back to a place of like connection with somebody else, is that we connect to ourselves and we're kind of like wait a minute, me being upset about this is really not authentic to who I am. So I'm gonna like move through something that is really actually not something I care to care to carry along with me. So I think it really does end up kind of diffusing a lot of unhealthy communication dynamics that don't serve the relationship and don't serve us, right, you know? And it's so important. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, you go ahead. No, I would say it's so important for us to be attuned to that too, like, especially with our partner, like knowing, like what is it that you know vibes well with them, like, is this going to help them right now? Is me jumping into the problem solving mode going to fix how they're feeling? And I think the fixing part is our. A lot of things just get a little comfortable because you know you don't like seeing your partner in distress. We want to fix them. You don't like seeing your friend in distress, but fixing it and jumping in to do that is not always the solution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and oftentimes that's a sign of, like our own discomfort that they're feeling that way. So that brings me to the next question, because this all sounds great and wonderful, but I know that both of us work with high conflict families. You know, we do something called reunification therapy at our, at our work, where, you know, conflict has been the basically the foundation of these relationships, right? So validation is something that we really need to be achieved in order to start working through to some type of healthier dynamic. But when we start talking to people about this, they really, because there's been so much conflict, they're like I don't even know how to get what do you mean validated? That's not what I said. So how can you actually practice validation without necessarily agreeing or endorsing somebody else's experience somebody else's you know experience, so to speak?
Speaker 2:That's. You know that's a really good question, because I think something that I often revert back to is the and. So, like I think sometimes, when we put in the but saying, okay, you feel that way, but I feel this way, so that's why my opinion is more valid than yours. I think adding in the and like two like you said dialectics, two things that are opposing, can still be true. You can still feel this way about my child, and I can still disagree with the fact that you feel this way, and realizing that that's not that doesn't mean that there's conflict. That just means that you don't agree on the same thing, and it doesn't necessarily need to turn into a big, prolonged fight.
Speaker 2:And again, it's easier said than done, right, but I think the easiest way that I found it to be beneficial is just replacing the but to the and and, even practicing validating ourselves. I think it starts within us, and then we can move our way out too, and just being radically genuine, like we're not going to be. It's not a power struggle, it doesn't have to. You don't have to one up the other person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's that's key is that you know, especially in any type of relationship, even within ourselves, we really do have two experiences, you know. So within ourselves we have the conscious and the unconscious experience of something right, and within a relationship we have two or more experiences and validation within, let's just say, there is a fight and, of course, healthy communication. You know, if we go into a lot of the semantics of it, you know we start going into unhealthy dynamics when we start saying you did this right. But even when we say, hey, I feel disrespected when this, that or the other occurred and the other person is like, yes, but all of a sudden we're shut down. Right, and so we can.
Speaker 1:You know, part of this is accepting that somebody can experience something and that is valid, like they're feeling around. That experience is valid and our intention could have never been to be disrespectful and we can validate that feeling. We say, hey, I'm so sorry that what you know, when I said that it came across disrespectful, and know that that was never my intention. I was really trying to communicate this, that or the other. So all of a sudden now we have a feeling that an experience that brought about a feeling that's valid and an expression of intention, right, and oftentimes those two things do not. They don't equate to each other. Yeah, so we, we want somebody who's experienced to match our intention, and that doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1:You know, this isn't, this isn't math, right? We have all the dynamics and the same thing happens within us, right, consciously, I, I might experience something and unconsciously I have a story playing out being like I'm so stupid, blah, blah, blah, like never good enough. My conscious part has to say, hey, I know that that made you feel that way and that has never been the truth, right? So, yes, that feeling comes from somewhere and I space for, for a different narrative, you know. So that validation. You know, if we get even too stuck in trying to fix within ourselves or trying to defend within ourselves, we end up not getting a full processing of that experience or of that emotion. So, so how would you support somebody who's really, really struggling to start the process of validation, especially, let's say, in a relationship where they they do tend to find themselves in a little bit of higher defensiveness?
Speaker 2:I think for that, like I just identifying, like within yourself hey, what emotion am I feeling right now and what is its purpose? What is this emotion trying to tell me? So let's say, for example, I just came home from a long day of work. I come home, the dishes are not done, the house is a mess. I had asked my husband to do this one thing and he didn't do it. So, in my head, what emotion am I already starting to feel?
Speaker 2:Irritation, anger. What is this irritation and anger telling me? It's telling me that I am uncomfortable by something that happened. It's telling me that something was misconveyed in my communication with my husband. That's when, once you've analyzed what emotion you're having, then I would really say, like you know, how can I confront this in a way that doesn't come across as if I'm attacking him? And that's when the I feel statements come in. Right.
Speaker 2:I felt this emotion when I saw all of this. I don't want to assume that you didn't do it because you're trying to neglect me, or you because you're intentionally trying not to listen to what I have to say, but this is how I felt about it and I want to convey to you that this is what was going on in my head. So, coming from that approach, instead of immediately going into, well, you should have done this. You're not listening to me. You did this on purpose. You never listened to anything I have to say, and then it is spirals. So I think that would be like the easiest way to like not immediately go into attack mode. But now I just realized you asked about defensiveness.
Speaker 1:So I mean, actually that was a really good recommendation. It's like huh, yeah, maybe don't start from. Oh, I see I came. Actually it's funny because I actually came home the other day hangry. Like I was hangry, I had words, there was soccer, all this stuff, and I saw that like the house was a mess, there was no stuff, and I saw that like the house was a mess, there was no dinner, and I was like I was already in that state.
Speaker 1:You know, and you know, sometimes, even as therapists, like people think we have, you know, we've, we've mastered all, mastered all these skills, but we still have to be and I think this is the key coming to a conscious place as to what is my emotion and how can I communicate this, from a place of staying in connection with myself and with somebody else and understanding that that emotion doesn't it doesn't mean that that was the intention of somebody you know. So I think, yes, the the first step to learning to validate is to become very conscious of your emotions. From somebody else's communication, whether it's verbal or nonverbal dishes, everywhere, that's a nonverbal communication of I'm, I'm not respected, right, and then we come from that emotional place, you know. So, really, that first step is about kind of consciously seeing what, what is the feeling I'm having and how do I need to address it. And using those I statements is so important because it's not coming from a projected place, it's coming from a more embodied place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that way you can distance yourself from the stories you're telling yourself about the emotion too. Like, if I'm having this emotion, the story I'm telling myself is that my husband doesn't respect me. So how can I come from this, from like? How can I bring awareness and consciousness to this part so that I do not go into an attack?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think a lot of the conversations we've kind of had is about being you know how to respond when we have a reaction to something. But I think the more you become nuanced and validation, you also can come at it from a proactive standpoint, right? So in your scenario of coming home and the house is a mess, kind of like I should have done last week which I didn't, you know, love the accountability, exactly Right, like I need to hold myself accountable, um is seeing, you know, seeing something needing to address it, because it did feel like disrespect, going to that person and saying, hey, it looks like you've had probably a really busy day and you know you've had a lot of tasks to address. So I wanted to just make sure. You know, was there a plan for the kitchen, or was there a plan for this, that and the other, or do we need to find a different solution, right?
Speaker 1:So you know that also goes into a whole other slew of things like expectations versus agreements, and you know I'm sure we'll have to have you back on for more healthy communication skills. But so validation, you know it's a tough thing for people to grapple with and oftentimes they go into more invalidating statements. So can you give me an example of like okay, we've talked about validation, how to practice it, how to say it, that it's not necessarily agreeing, but what does invalidating statements look like and what are some of them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like invalidation is something that can occur based on your environment, and it can also occur without even like us. Intentionally wanting to invalidate can be things like oh, like you should not be crying, that's not something to cry about, there's no need to be crying. That gives us the message that, oh, maybe there's something wrong with me, maybe I should not be crying. What's wrong with me that I am crying. Or a statement like oh, should not be crying. Like what, what's wrong with me that I am crying? Or a statement like oh, I had a similar situation like that. Again, there's it's okay to empathize, but then when it becomes more of like oh, I had a situation like that too, when I experienced this, and this is you know, I completely know what you're going through and then making it about them. So the biggest, biggest one that I've seen, at least when working with high conflict families, is you know the you shouldn't feel that way. I don't understand why you feel that way.
Speaker 1:You're too sensitive, or I've experienced this too, and I was just fine, so I don't know why you're not fine point of like their intention they they are probably thinking their intention is to help fix it, or like let me tell you how I did this, or let me you know.
Speaker 1:Like let me tell you, this isn't something sad to be to be crying about. That's probably their intention, unfortunately. What's that's actually about is them and their discomfort, and they're not wanting to to feel dysregulated, or they want to be seen and heard in their experience. Right, so that is, those are all like such invalidating statements that probably come from a place of like I want to fix this, I don't want them to feel this way, or I want them to know they're not alone, but it actually pulls back that space where we can really attune and attend to somebody that we care about and and something you know, a phrase that I hear a lot about and and I think people believe it comes from a genuine place or a validating place, but it's actually very invalidating is I'm sorry you feel that way.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I just feel like an apology yeah, no, it doesn't and invalidation. You know, sometimes that needs to lead to a repair, right. But when we say I'm sorry you feel that way, what we're really saying is I'm sorry, that's yours and I can't be. I have no part of it. Yeah, I have no part of that. Yeah, and that's a very invalidating and very shutting down statement. But yet people will often feel like, well, look, I apologize that you were feeling that way, but it has no ownership. And that happens a lot, especially in parent-child relationships or in romantic relationships, where we're so uncomfortable that our partner is feeling a certain way, probably because of something that we've participated in that we know we need to have some accountability, but we can't hold full accountability. So we say I'm sorry that you feel that way.
Speaker 2:Because then it goes back onto the other person. We don't have to identify the emotions we're feeling and the uncomfort we're feeling, because it just goes right back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let's say somebody who's listening to this or watching this. They're seeing either themselves which we tend to not see that unless they come to therapy themselves in a very unhealthy pattern of communication or maybe a very unhealthy pattern of communication or they're receiving, you know, a lot of invalidating statements. Most likely both parties are participating in it. But what would you say would be the next steps to really start harnessing the power of healthy communication?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so are you saying like if they are the receiver of the invalidation?
Speaker 1:Or vice versa. You know what would be the first steps to take. You know if you're recognizing you're in a cycle of unhealthy communication with someone or people in general.
Speaker 2:Definitely, I would definitely try my best to like address it in a way that's again so reflecting back, having the conscious awareness of what emotions are coming up for me and laying down what the facts are like here.
Speaker 2:The fact is that this person I have observed this person say this to me in this specific quote. I have observed the feeling that came up for me when they said this, and now I want to be able to talk to this person about it Because, again, it also depends on whether, like how important this relationship is to you. This is someone that is very important, close to you, and you have a desire to repair the relationship. I would definitely encourage that person to you know, let's go up to this person you know, granted that it is a safe person and they're not in danger in any way by interacting with them, but just going up and saying, hey, I felt this emotion when I heard you say this to me. I want to clarify what was your intention with this and I mean, if there's something that I'm missing, what can I do to improve our communication? That's just how I typically approach that. I know it can be different with different case-by-case basis.
Speaker 1:Which I think is a great way to kind of encourage people, if they're seeing a pattern, to seek some external support, right, whether it's through a therapist or through a coach, because the first step, like you said, is to become consciously aware of self. Right, really, take that focus off of the other person and come back to yourself. What am I experiencing? What am I experiencing? What am I, what am I participating in? Because we do see, like a lot of unhealthy communication is what leads to the ending of relationships, which leads to you know distance and you know family, people and and difficulties in getting projects completed at work and and the breakup of relationships, because we are not looking at ourselves, we're looking at somebody else. And so the first step is having that space to be be consciously aware of work. That's not super easy to do, so having a third party that can kind of reflect that to you tends to be the safest place, because there really is no, there's no, harm in that right and, yeah, there's a consequence to being able to sit in that space. Even in couples therapy, you know, I typically sit with them individually for a little while so that they can get conscious in what they're actually saying and feeling and then hearing that their feelings are valid and their experience experiences led to that, but that it's not their partner's responsibility to own that necessarily Right Cause we're we're trying to get some kind of, some kind of discomfort fixed.
Speaker 1:So I think you know you saying coming, you know, becoming so much more conscious of yourself is that first step, and that's not always easy to do. So that would be the best, best time to go find Sarah. She's a great place to be able to, to use as a mirror, to hear things for like what they actually are within yourself, so that you can come to to a more conscious place with a partner or a family member or a workplace. I always say, you know, when you want to start practicing healthy communication, seek to understand. You know, rather than coming to self and being like this is what I want. Seek to understand what's actually happening within yourself and potentially within somebody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and communication is just a form of connection seeking. Like that's literally what it feels like, because you know you're trying to get something heard, as you said in the very beginning of our podcast. Like you know, something is trying to be fixed or heard and you're trying to find connection with the other person when you're communicating.
Speaker 1:And communication is a non-negotiable to connection and healthy communication is the only path we can take to begin that process right. Otherwise we're going to stay disconnected. It's, it's not safe, because those very organic needs of being seen, heard and loved can't be met if there's invalidation, right, right, well, anything else you'd like to kind of share with our listeners or our viewers, what else can you kind of add as little tidbits for healthy communication? Or validation or invalidation?
Speaker 2:I think just giving ourselves grace throughout the process, like it's very difficult to you know, like listening to this podcast Okay, now I know all about validation, so I'm going to apply it in my daily life Like it's very difficult to actually implement what we learn. So, giving ourselves grace, reminding ourselves that, hey, like it's okay if I'm not able to validate myself right away, it's okay if I'm not able to immediately become this healthy communication guru just because I, you know, heard these skills one time. I think it's like a continuous process. And also maintaining our self-respect throughout the entire conversation. Sometimes, if we're feeling invalidated, feeling attached, we may not even have enough confidence or self-respect to be able to share because we've been invalidated, and also not feeling bad about wanting to change things in your communication. There's nothing wrong with wanting a difference or a change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you said that. And as an inner child, you know rooted therapist, you know having that grace to understand that these communication patterns really were instilled a long time ago. You know like we learned these patterns at a time that we were not fully conscious and so have grace with yourself as you're trying to learn new ways of being authentic, being in connection and knowing that communication is the root of being able to get that, and I love that you said. You know that you know holding space for your own self-respect. You know a lot of times when we're part of unhealthy communication, that can lead to codependency, that can lead to, you know, people pleasing and that you don't. You know just to stay in connection, which is not really connection. We don't have to get our own levels of needs to be able to get that. So I love that. That was, you know, also highlighted too, that this isn't about, you know, shaming yourself and changing everything about yourself. It's about understanding to understand understand yourself as well.
Speaker 2:Right and understanding what you value in a relationship. That would be like great, great self inquiry there, like what are my values and what is being disrespected here, when I'm being invalidated?
Speaker 1:Which is a yeah, a great segue too, when you can't have healthy communication in a relationship, how it's okay to set boundaries and make different decisions. So I think that's a great topic for another podcast. We have like a series with Sarah now. Series with Sarah. I like it. Well, thank you so much for coming on and I have to just tell you all, like Sarah is such a bright light in in our practice and is is absolutely wonderful with family systems and such. So if you're looking to work on healthy communication or just understanding yourself more from a from a rooted place of your own patterns of communications or family systems, please feel free to reach out. Her link will be down in the bio where you can learn more about her and how you can contact us for further services. But thank you so much, sara, for coming on and so excited for your next couple of months of celebration and change. We can't wait to see all the fun things coming from your space.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me on and definitely will be practicing my validation as I go into these wedding festivities.
Speaker 1:I'll have plenty of people to be interacting with, I'm sure. So all right. Thank you, listeners, for coming and joining us. If you're watching this, thank you for being a part of it, to support us. We ask that you, please, please, please, go down, give us a five-star review, leave a comment and we can continue to be providing this contact for free. Thanks again, everyone. We'll see you next time, bye, bye.
