Learning To Be With Yourself

Silence can feel like a threat when you have trained yourself to move fast, stay busy, and never stop thinking. We sit down with Sara Kassam, a DBT-certified therapist and group fitness leader, to unpack why “being present with yourself” is so often uncomfortable, and why that discomfort is not proof you are doing it wrong. A lot of us are not afraid of being alone, we are afraid of what our thoughts will say when the noise finally drops.

We dig into how hustle culture, constant productivity, and even popular self-help habits can become subtle avoidance. Sara shares how perfectionism and low self-worth can turn self-improvement into a reassurance loop that keeps you chasing “better” instead of practicing self-acceptance. We also talk about the real role of decompression and dissociation after mentally demanding days, especially for therapists and other helping professionals, and how to tell when scrolling is a short reset versus something that starts disrupting sleep, work, and daily functioning.

Then we get practical: mindfulness does not have to mean sitting still with your eyes closed. We explore everyday mindfulness skills you can use right away, including nature walks, breath awareness during workouts, and small “science experiment” practices that build tolerance for presence without forcing your mind to stop. We also separate solitude from loneliness, and why learning to be with yourself can strengthen relationships and even help kids develop creativity through boredom and imaginative play.

Subscribe, share this with someone who is tired of overthinking, and leave a review if the conversation helps you build a calmer relationship with your own mind.

Want to learn more about Sara? You can find her at:

https://www.risetherapycenter.com/sara

IG: seenbysarak and Email: sara@risetherapycenter.com

Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:

@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter

Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com

Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.

Transcript

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Welcome And The Discomfort Of Presence

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello and welcome back to Unstill We Rise. I'm your host, Christine Seidel, and today we are back with Sarah Cassone. Welcome back, Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Thanks for having me back.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Absolutely. We love having Sara on here. She's always got some fun topics to discuss and great insight to share. So today we're actually going to talk about the discomfort we have with being present with ourselves. Yeah, yeah, it's a real thing. Like, I can't tell you how many people just genuinely, even when we talk about like mindfulness, are like, I can't do it. I can't do it. My mind races too much. I can't handle the silence. So I think there's kind of this collective experience of really struggling with the discomfort or the uncomfortabless of just being alone or being in your own presence and not having something to do all the time. So can you speak to a little bit of around like what you are noticing about this difficulty?

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Yeah, I think that a lot of the times it's not that, you know, we are afraid to be alone with ourselves. It's more like being alone with our thoughts. Like, what's gonna happen if I'm stop going at 100 miles per hour? What am I gonna have to sit with these feelings of unresolved anxiety or grief or anything else that I've been pushing down and avoiding? It's kind of a way of avoidance in a way. Like you don't want to be with yourself and you don't even realize you're doing it. You think of it as like an act of self-care, like, look, I'm taking care of myself, I'm taking care of my kids, I'm taking care of my family, I'm doing all the things, I'm working a job, I'm going super fast and everything, I'm so productive. Only to then just suppress all of our underlying needs and desires in the act of being, you know. Busy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Busy. Yeah. It's um it there's been this trend, like the the hustle culture, which is starting to get like a little, you know, from from all of our, you know, online gurus about how harmful it is to constantly be busy or constantly be in that hustle mode. And you know, I think a lot of times in in our work, we're really trying to help individuals get to a place of being versus doing. Um, and I like that you brought up like it's it's this, you know, constant thinking that they may be avoiding, or maybe they're not even aware of, like they're avoiding. So, and I know in my own work, like a lot of clients are just like, I just can't settle my body long enough. You know, if I start a meditation or if I try to uh you know listen to some you know guided relaxation, I end up just being annoyed, or I like I'm uncomfortable, or they're I'm thinking about the grocery list or whatever. So there is this like resistance to it. So, how does somebody start beginning to like work on whether or not they're avoiding or resisting, or or even to start building this comfort or tolerance with being

Busy As Avoidance

SPEAKER_01 3:10

present with yourself?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, I think it takes a lot of like introspection in a sense. I know like people who do tend to, I mean, I myself included, like when I'm trying to continue to do things, I'm like, I'm gonna continue to grow on myself, work on myself. We end up like isolate isolating the true needs that we have. So just sitting there, being more introspective about like what do I actually need? What is the function of my behavior when I am like doom scrolling on TikTok, when I am watching TV for hours on end, is it more to help me relax or am I trying to avoid whatever's going on? Like I just trying to unpack the function of each of my behaviors. That doesn't mean that you never doom scroll. Obviously, that's one of my favorite things at the end of the day. I'm like, time to scroll. Yeah, and watch me out of it. But at that point, also identifying like how much of this is me serving my body and I'm just trying to calm myself down, or how much of it is like just so that I can quiet my thoughts so that I don't feel like I'm on constant like go, go, go. Like, I think a lot of times it is like the self-critical thinking that comes up where you're like, I cannot be alone with myself. But really, is it you can't be alone with yourself, or you feel like you can't be alone with your thoughts? And those are two different things, like being like self like.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

And the mind is what really kind of gives us more insight into things, like whether it's needs or creativity or whatever it is, the brain constantly going is not good for it. And so I think you know, decompressing, even disassociating is important to do. You know, that's kind of what we do oftentimes when we're doing scrolling, is we're disassociating because our brain fundamentally is like so tired of processing. You know, I know in the work we do, we even talked about this last night, was you know, we are constantly mentally assessing. Yeah. You know, for you know, if you see six clients in a row for six hours, you your mind is just absorbing their verbal, their nonverbal, the shifts, like the tone, the words, everything, you know. So your your brain is just so highly attuned to something, and then your mind is making sense of that as a therapist. So by the time we're finished with our day, we're like, I just want to stare at a wall, or I just want I just want to watch like some kind of reality TV because I literally cannot like consume any more content that I have to do something with, you know. So I think you know, finding ways to disassociate or finding ways to decompress is needed. You know, it's like the brain fundamentally

Why We Need To Decompress

SPEAKER_01 6:20

needs to not be churning cortisol and and all of those activating hormones, but it can also be something that we're using to escape our life, you know. So what is the importance of like presence with self?

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah, and I think that's all the stuff that you said earlier. Great. I was like thinking as you were talking, but I think that you know being present with yourself is not just about like being like, oh, like I'm identifying that I'm having this negative thought about myself. It's about like intentionally taking steps to kind of understand, like sometimes I don't need to be fixing every thought I have. Sometimes that thought can just come. I can feel a certain way about having like of dec about decompressing, and I don't have to immediately try to solve that thought and stop myself from feeling a certain way. I think, especially individuals who are very empathetic and are in helping professions, you know, we tend to feel like we always need to be fixing something. We need to fix ourselves in order to help other people, but that's not necessarily true. Yes, there's this degree of self-care that we also need to implement, but self-care for us will look like not trying to fix every single thought that comes up and not believing every critical thought that passes our mind. Like feeling like we're not doing enough, not good enough. Like just sitting with the idea of being bored. I think that's been something that people just want to shove down. Because yes, I understand boredom is a privilege sometimes, right? Like people have busy lives, but like we don't want to sit in that feeling of boredom because we don't know what to do and what comes up. The things that we've been trying to keep quiet suddenly becomes audible, and you're like, wait, what? What do I do now? And this is like a sign for us to do something creative, to you know, give pour into ourselves is how I like to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

But yeah, I think I mean I remember like my discomfort with having to really step into a space of like genuinely learning how to be with myself, you know, during a season where I was ready to do that level of self-work, right? Like that was like a lot of the work I was doing in my own therapy was I was very proficient at doing things, but I realized a lot of my doing was avoiding, like really attuning to myself and in my own work and learning how to be present with myself, you know. Especially for a child that had a lot of like emotional neglect in childhood, I didn't know what I needed. And so being present with myself was sometimes like, well, I don't know what's gonna come up, right? Like I genuinely had to confront, like, I had never really learned how to listen to myself. I just learned how to do things. And so, you know, through that journey, I learned I genuinely enjoy my own company. I think I'm the funniest person I know that you are myself. I'm like, you are lovely, my friend. And so I think it's you know, it is very uncomfortable to kind of step into that space. But it doesn't have to be like, you know, I step into the space of presence so I can learn more of what I need to do because I started falling into that too. I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna meditate so I get inspiration and insight into what I need to do. And it's like, okay, that's really not how it's supposed to be used. And when you create the space, like intentional space to start doing that, you end up kind of finding out interesting little things, you know, and I'm very protective of that time now because I I'm like, oh, I get to go hang out with her again. Like, I wonder what she's got for us today.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

I'm sure it's something I think that's a good thing for people pleasers too. Like, who are you when you're not performing and pleasing? I think that's a great way for them to kind of have that space to be like, what is my identity outside of other people?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah, be a great way to kind of explore, explore like remembering the self. You know, when we look at you know, Jung and the wounded and our in our child, like the whole you know, premise of that is that archetype is there not because of the wound, but because of on the other side of the wound is you remember who you actually are. So it's remembrance, but we can't remember things when we're genuinely just like churning thoughts. That's actually the the greatest way to detach from the remembrance is by constantly thinking and constantly assessing, and self-care can become that too. You know, self-help can become that. So tell us a little bit more about how self-help could

Stop Trying To Fix Every Thought

SPEAKER_01 10:45

actually is actually a way of avoidance.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yes, that's my favorite thing to talk about. I feel like I love that self-help is so normalized and popularized. So I do think that in and of itself can be a toxic culture, yeah, just because it perpetuates this, like especially if you are someone who is perfectionistic, um, tends to be very like hard on themselves, high achieving. You can find yourself in that trap. Like, when am I ever gonna be good enough? You're constantly looking for something else to make yourself better, and it's just another way of avoiding actually accepting who you are as a person. It's another way for you to be more critical in yourself. Like, okay, see, I I didn't I didn't do that, I didn't even know I was supposed to do that. Now I gotta work on this so that I can get better at this, and I can get better, and it's like a constant, never-ending loop, kind of like the reassurance loop that we find ourselves stuck in when we are when our anxiety is speaking to us and we're trying to get our yeah, we're trying to get this external reinforcement. Yeah, so it kind of serves as like that reinforcement of the negative thinking patterns. Which again, not to say that all self-help books are bad or that they're not helpful. I do think that this constant like hustle culture, like you just described, like it's it's detrimental, especially if you're someone who already struggles with self-worth. Yeah, you just end up trying to find your worth in books and podcasts and videos and whatever it is in a way that just kind of fix everything about yourself instead of just being with yourself. Like, is it possible for you to be with yourself without thinking there's something that needs to be fixed and changed?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

I think we run into this also within the therapeutic relationship. I think uh especially being you know a therapist who supervises and consults with other therapists, that self-help mentality we also fall into as therapists, like with imposter syndrome. We're always kind of fun. We all have it. I still work through that myself, but you know, we always think that there's something else we need to learn, something else we need to know, something else we need to be certified in to meet our clients and meet them where they're at. And oftentimes, like the

Self-Help As A Reassurance Loop

SPEAKER_01 12:55

greatest indicator of change for a client is our ability to be with them, yeah, to to sit with them, sometimes in silence, sometimes without fixing it, and just be able to like be in this sense of presence where we learn about them. It's in those moments where I hear things that my clients say that I'm like, oh, they really value compassion, probably because it's something they never really received. Yeah, you know, and so I I think in those moments of presence is actually where the nuggets are, like the treasures are, but it's you have to be in it long enough, not long, forever, you know, like I'll never be able to meditate for you know an hour. Like I drop in, yeah, I dwell, and then you know, I check out I check out, you know, and you know, I find other ways of presence that's not meditation, you know. Meditation I can do and I can go into it quickly now, but it's not necessarily the place of presence that I prefer. But I think even within the therapeutic relationship, it's important that we become comfortable with presence, so our clients become more comfortable with presence. So um tell me a little bit about like people like myself who may not necessarily genuinely move into like meditation or mindfulness practices that easily. I know you're a DBT certified therapist, so you know you have a lot of understanding of mindfulness and meditation, but for people who are kind of like, I don't know how to do that, or I can't settle myself down enough to even begin that. What kind of advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_03 14:37

That's a great question. I think in my trainings and stuff,

Mindfulness Without Sitting Still

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I think what I've come to learn also is that mindfulness doesn't have to be just closing your eyes and meditating, and it doesn't have to be something like as zen or like typical per se. You can't be a monk. Yes, no, no, but what you can do is like being mindful is in everyday moments, like going outside on a mindfulness walk. You don't even have to call it mindfulness, you're gonna say you're going outside on a walk and being aware of what's around you, just simply noticing that wall has some weird stains on it, that bush has a lot of ants in it, that that car is driving real fast and skipped over that stop sign. Those are all acts and ways to be mindful in your everyday culture so it doesn't feel like you're having to go out of your way and be like, now I'm gonna close my eyes and now I'm gonna make myself relax, even though I'm not relaxed. Like, even things like that can be mindful. Even doing an activity where you feel most at peace, like if you're someone who um really connects with like fitness, that can be a good way for you to be mindful. Focusing on your breath during your run. How often am I breathing in? How often am I breathing out? Um, especially like even group fitness classes, like, even in that, how often am I finding myself getting lost in my own brain instead of being present in my actual workout? How often am I comparing myself to someone else? So even things like that can be mindfulness, it doesn't have to be like a cookie-cutter method for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, and I think that like nature is a great place, you know, because it does, you know, allow us to move out of like a hustle, like nature naturally inspires us to be in more of more of a rhythm versus a hustle. So I think, you know, if you're somebody who really struggles with like still in the body, like going out in nature, walking, hiking, those types of things really really get you to the threshold of not overthinking. You know, as a culture, we're addicted to overthinking. You know, what's next? What's next? What do I need to do? What's next? And nature like invites you to like let's push through the threshold of thinking, like we're on a hike, we're surrounded by nature, and you do kind of then get lost in you know, the the lack of conscious thought. You know, you're kind of like, oh, I don't even know what I was thinking. I just kind of got lost in my hike, and I just don't get lost on a hike just lost in it. And gotta clarify that. Um, so it's like this threshold, you know, of resistance, you know, where we're we have to kind of give ourselves that threshold of discomfort to get to the place of like, you know, it's presence, but it's presence that invites in, you know, intuition or insight or inspiration. Um, and that's where I think we really harm ourselves is when we can't get past that threshold because it's really uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, like that resistance between thought and and being, thinking and and just being is really uncomfortable. Where it's not hard or hurtful to us, it's just unfamiliar.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Yeah. And then we kind of confuse the unfamiliarity with, oh, we should not do that ever again, which again, sometimes our intuition obviously would not to ignore that, but I mean, it weren't if we're not used to slowing down, if we're not used to practicing mindfulness, the unfamiliarity can just deter us from even trying it in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, and I think that that's something that like for people, if they're like listening to this, like they'll actually be like, Well, I can't meditate because my thoughts don't stop. And I'm like, Well, you can, but that may not be the place to start because if that's just kind of a self-fulfilling, self-fulfilling prophecy, like don't do it, you know. And so for like some of my clients, I kind of set it up as like a science experiment, you know, be like, here are some intuitive practices, here's how many minutes to do that. Let's track it like a science experiment and see like what information you get or what insights you get. And that seems to be like they feel like they're doing something, you know, perfect, but really it's training them to just drop into more of the mind versus the brain. And it helps really with that threshold of discomfort of like, yes, but why am I sitting here meditating when I could be doing the dishes or like I need to send those emails, which is usually the intrusive thoughts of all the things that we need to do. But once you get past that threshold because you feel like, oh, I'm doing this exercise that I have one client, I love it. She's like, I always do these exercises before my session with you because I feel like I'm gonna be in trouble if I don't do my homework. And I'm like, you know, you're never in trouble. She's like, I know I'm not. But she recognized having that place that she had to be accountable to. Then she started doing it more regularly, and then she found that the information she was getting in these practices, she was so excited by. So she's like, I want to keep, I want to keep dropping in and keep doing that because it felt like she was getting that presence, and in that presence, she was getting more insight. So yeah, it's interesting how like the thing that we're really trying to avoid, which is like overthinking, we end up getting the information in the mindfulness, in the practice that makes our life easier. That actually gives us all the solutions that we're looking for. Yeah, and it's usually not that serious, it's usually pretty simple, but our brains are just so used to looking for the complex and and difficult and hard and arduous that we resist typically something that's a lot more simple.

Screen Time And Revenge Bedtime

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, because that overthinking is an addiction, you know. So, how do you know if something like, you know, like we were talking about, disassociating has its place, right? It's where, you know, the the stimulation within our body has become too much that we need to disassociate to regulate. It's a form of of self-regulation, right? So when do we know where it's healthy disassociation, whether it's TV or a phone or whatever, or it's become something that is avoidance?

SPEAKER_03 20:43

So that's one other great question. You always come in hard. I feel like with that, it really depends on like how you're doing it. Like if you're let's say you're spending hours on end on your phone scrolling or whatever it is that you're doing, then you really gotta start to ask yourself, this might be a little bit of avoidance that's coming out, because it could also just be I don't like the revenge bedtime. Have you heard of that? Where like especially at night time, we that's when even if we're super tired, we didn't get enough time to scroll. So it's kind of our way to stay up for hours on end, even though we have an early morning, but we got home late. So it's kind of like your body's way of fighting back and saying, No, I'm gonna stay awake even though I don't want to stay awake, and I'm gonna scroll because I didn't get a chance to do it, you know, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Like you're you're like justifying and like negotiating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

And then it perpetuates that so a lot of clients find themselves stuck in this like three, four, five-hour long scroll loops, and then they end up falling asleep late, then they wake up early, then their sleep is ruined, and then they find the same cycle over and over again, and they say that in this in the terms of, oh, that's my self care time, but it's interfering with their day to day functioning, it's interfering with their ability to perform at work. At that point, right, that's where I'd be like, okay, this may be more avoidance rather than just a distraction. I think it's very healthy for everyone to spend 30. Minutes up to an hour a day of just decompressing however they want to decompress. But I think when it comes to those like extremities with the time taking up interfering with your work schedule, interfering with your daily functioning, your, you know, not engaging in your day-to-day habits. That's when I'd be like, oh, okay, maybe this is a little bit more avoidance coming out. Or especially if you've had like a significant, it doesn't even have to be a significant event, but if you've had like really tough back-to-back days, and then you come home and you're immediately just you know scrolling for hours and hours on end, I think you can just kind of worsen the loop there.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, and I mean there's a screen time tracker for a reason, right? Like it's there for a reason. And I think you know, also like what is the content that you're using, you know. I mean, I think sometimes like TV, if it's like long-form movie, like you do get kind of lost into a story, and there is like a uh processing that is natural to your brain and your mind, whereas social media is short form content that you're really not processing all the way through, and then you're moving to the next one and the next one. I think something I've found is like the more I enjoy the like solitude, the less I can tolerate the short form content. Oh I'm just like, ugh, it's just it's way too like overwhelming because there's also not a lot of substance in it.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

It's hard, it's hard to consume content in such like, and and you probably have this all over your feed too, as therapists. They want to put these very profound insights out there in like three carousels or less, or like a three-minute reel that is like your spiritual journey and all the things, and you're like, I just don't think that's the place for that. And and so I think the more that shows up, the harder it is for me to digest it. So I'm just feeling like, eh, I'd rather go like just sit outside and you know, have a glass of wine, or like, you know, be in nature, or you know, even just you know, doodle or I do little clay figures or something that is just taking me out of the I have to have something right here to do in order to complete my day. So um what else do you think would be helpful for people to understand about presence and uh you

Solitude Loneliness And Kids Boredom

SPEAKER_01 24:25

know solitude, being by yourself, things like that?

SPEAKER_03 24:28

I think that the distinguish distinguishing between solitude and loneliness, like I think there is a sense of calm and peace in being alone with yourself. Yeah. And it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're lonely because you're choosing to spend time with yourself. I think in our culture it's so normalized to like, you know, yes, there's independence and then there's loneliness. And I think sometimes when people like to do things by themselves, sometimes they get painted as, oh, they're all by themselves, they're just lonely. Like they don't like, they don't make time for anyone or whatever it is. I think that there's a healthy balance between that. Like you can be alone with yourself, but if you're starting to feel lonely, obviously that's another thing. Like, you know, feeling like I still think that the fear of loneliness kind of inhibits people from wanting to be alone because they're like, I don't want to feel like I don't have anyone around me to support me. But in reality, you being alone is only going to help you build more connections so that you have the time to decompress with yourself, learn who you are, so that when you do enter these relationships, you know what you're giving and what you're putting in. Like you know what you're looking for, you know your values.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, I mean, I think that was probably one of the best seasons was being by myself and learning about myself before I ever went out you know for a relationship. And that was like I genuinely enjoyed that time. It was kind of hard to start dating. I was like, I don't know, I don't know, what's she doing this week? I want to hang out with her. So um, and I think it's also good for kids too, that they learn that you know it's okay to play by themselves, or it's okay to like find things that they enjoy to do alone, you know, and it does they don't constantly have to be entertained, they don't constantly have to have something that they, you know, that are external of them, entertaining them. And that parents, especially with young children, like allow them to have space to play by themselves, you know. Oftentimes parents, I know if they have multiple children, they'll be like, okay, well, as soon as I've been done taking care of this child, I need to go play with that one. And I'm like, let them have their own play within proximity, like they they don't need your interference in their world all the time. They're okay, you know, as long as you're putting some time aside to attune to them and listen to them and be curious about their world, you don't have to play with them for an hour every single day as their playmate. It's just not what they need, you know. They they'll be able to access more of their needs if they're able to spend that time in their own imaginary world. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Because developmentally, imaginative play is super important for kids. Like them allow being allowed to have the opportunity to explore themselves and like see who they are when they play by themselves. There's not this desire. I love that you said that they don't need to be entertained all the time. Let them sit with the boredom. Like it's okay if they feel bored. I think remembering back to when I was a kid, I mean, I'm not talking about me having a perfect child who got before it. Like I remember being a kid, like the times I was bored were some of the bored in a sense, was some of the funnest times I had just because I was able to be by myself, imaginatively play with myself, understand my world and how I perceived it. Like I remember that being really formative for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

It is, yeah. I mean, developmentally it's it's required, but you'll see a lot of times kids who are really uncomfortable with you know, presence and you know, entertaining self once something's kind of taken away, like, okay, no more iPad, or you know, that you can see that resistance, you can see that tension of them moving into like a world of imagination or a world of curiosity or a world of like, I want to go and like dig a hole outside, you know. I mean, that in and of itself allows their mind to explore, you know, the mind is different than the brain, right? Right. And parents have to be okay with that resistance, they have to build their own tolerance to that resistance because it is hard, you know, and a kid's like, I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm bored, you know, you have to learn how to be like, well, I'm sorry. Like that's something you're gonna have to figure out, right? But it really does help them drop into a more and actually a deeper state of understanding themselves. I think that's probably something I want to leave with listeners, is like what you find in that presence is so much better than what's in a self-help book, yeah, than what's on social media. That's that's you know, something you can do. It's very rich, it's very um authentic, but you have to be able to tolerate that resistance.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

So it's a lifelong process. It is never good. It is completely is.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah, there's some days I'm like, I know I'm supposed to do this. Sometimes you just go stretch. Yeah, you know, go stretch for 10 minutes, you know, go walk do a lap around your building just to, you know, get out of of doing something and let your your mind come to a rest. So anything else you feel like we should share with our listeners or viewers?

SPEAKER_03 29:26

I think you summarized it pretty well. I loved your examples.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Thank you. Well, thank you for bringing such a great topic. And you know, Sarah is not only a great therapist, but she is a Thanks. She is also a stellar group fitness leader. So she knows all about like how to bring

Final Thoughts And Subscribe

SPEAKER_01 29:45

the mind and body together. So we really appreciate not only you know what she brings to these conversations, but the work she does with clients with DBT and mindfulness and body awareness. So we appreciate you coming on. We're gonna link some of her additional conversations at the end of this video. If you'd like subscribe and follow, we would greatly appreciate it. That's how we build support and how we continue serving in this way. So thank you, Sara, for coming on today. Thank you guys for listening and watching, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Bye for now.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

I'll try to do